Kiba dachi: Another shotoism.

[HanshiClayton]

There is no doubt that our deep kiba dachi (side or horse stance) in the Tekki katas is a shotoism. Okinawan styles often include Naihanshi (the original name), but they do it in an erect stance that resembles sanchin dachi, with the knees drawn inward to protect the groin. The deep, wide side stance appears only in Shotokan and its descendents.

I'm less certain about the other kata where side-stance plays a big role, such as the temple kata, but I am entertaining the idea that it doesn't really belong in those kata either. That will take further research.

[milmascaras2]

Dr. Clayton,
Given your position regarding the NaiHanChi as stated in your book, would you consider the Shorin Ryu version, a more authentic kata, closer to the orginal, than other versions? I say this because of the more mobile stance that is used , as opposed to kiba dachi. By the way, I was taught that these katas were "conditioning" exercises with little to no combat applications,hence the kiba dachi. Saludos!

[HanshiClayton]

Probably the most "authentic" naihanchi we have access to is the one taught by Choki Motobu. Upright, tense stance, with internal tension between the knees. Arm motions more or less like Tekki Shodan. According to Motobu, it was a one-kata fighting system, complete within itself.

It is important to understand that Motobu was kicked out of Itosu's class for being a thug. This might be the only kata he learned there. The comment about it being "complete within itself" could be a face-saving tatamae to explain why he didn't know any other kata. I'm just speculating there, but it is important to keep the personalities in mind. Some of these masters never told the truth when a lie would do.

Tekki as practiced in hard-style karate (with the deep stance) is certainly about conditioning. Fighting with your groin exposed like that is suicidal, period, so the deep stance is for building strength in the legs. Shuri-te dumped the weight-lifting of Naha-te and substituted deep stances when Matsumura moved the center of power from the chest and arms to the legs. Making a new student spend three years in a horse stance is entirely in keeping with that shift in emphasis.

The comment about Tekki being without any combat application is typical, and is yet another proof that traditional hardstyle teachers have no idea what is in their katas, if any more proof was needed.

Matsumura went to China for a year, studied as a beginner in some southern Chinese style, and came back with Tekki Shodan. I have been examining Wing Chun this year, following in Matsumura's footsteps, and there is no doubt that WC is a Tekki toolkit. The combat applications are very clear when you go to visit people who fight the way Tekki does.

[milmascaras2]

Dr. Clayton,
Is there any information regarding the style that Matsumura learned in China? I remember reading in "Zen Shaolin Karate" by Nathan Johnson, that these katas, might be related to praying mantis kung fu, because of the unusual hand position that some karate sensei use while performing the movements, similar to the praying mantis kung fu style, for grasping.Could it have been praying mantis?

[HanshiClayton]

Thanks, Raul, for reminding me about Nathan Johnson. I will have to revisit his books.

I have no resources regarding Preying Mantis, so really have not seen it. Wing Chun will be my door into China, at least at first. I can already see how rich the heritage is there.